Java SE (Java Platform, Standard Edition)

On the cusp of Sun's newfound enthusiasm for Java everywhere I felt I had to post a few questions on the state of the runtime installers. We've been having awful problems getting the runtime installed on clients; Windows XP boxes are a particular problem as users have a very restricted set of privileges and write access - meaning that the runtime installation has to be run by someone with Administrator rights. This just isn't practical when we're trying to roll out a Java Web Start solution enterprise-wide.

In an ideal world I suppose the runtime would be delivered pre-installed and big pat on back for getting Dell & HP to agree to this; but even with their support they'res still going to be a lot of Java unfriendly PC's out there.. Anybody got any clever ideas on routes around these problems.. I've tried to document some of our frustrations in the first part of this document
http://lopica.sourceforge.net/services/ . During the process of writing the same I stumbled across Microsoft's Windows Installer Service WhitePaper which states:


Operation in Lockdown Environments

To decrease support costs, many
organizations have locked down their
desktops by controlling people's ability to
write to the file system and registry. While
this prevents a person from accidentally or
intentionally modifying their configuration,
it also requires administrator intervention
whenever a new application needs to be
installed. Since the Windows Installer
operates as a system service on Windows NT
4.0 and Windows 2000, it has the ability to
run in one of two contexts:

- As the Local System account, which
has greater privileges than the user
- As the user, which is the default behavior

In a Windows 2000 environment, using the
Group Policy-based Change and Configuration
Management, the administrator can approve
certain applications, specifying that all
configuration operations on those
applications (installation, uninstall, and
repair) run as the Local System account. In
this manner, administrators can lock down
the file system and registry as described
above, and the Windows Installer service can
still perform installations on the person's
behalf. Only those applications approved by
the administrator run with elevated
privileges.


I've also run across "Provide .MSI file for Java, to deploy Java using active directory" (http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4854974.html). It appears Microsoft Installer might be the answer to both enterprise installation and the admin rights installation bugbear which really prevents us from offering users an easy install path. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has found any ways around these problems, are their any ms admins out their who've already repackaged the installers as msi packages and got the above deployments to work? Comments? Anyone?


..Finnaly (and can't resist a winge here) I find Sun's renewed interest in Java on the Desktop all very laudable; but the runtime support for Java Web Start and the Window ActiveX AutoDownloader are completely out-of-step. Web Start users still can't access
1.4.1_01, 1.4.1_02 or 1.4.1_03 runtimes from Sun's servers (as per the jnlp specs) (http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4827788.html) and support for other versions is very limited and always painfully slow coming online (http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4836169.html) (http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=38&thread=366655).
I understand these are special installers and require extra development alongside the better known .exe versions (which have they're own chequered history with XP & InstallShield issues). But come-on Sun, a little more forethought and support - please..

- Richard